Bank Feed Details

Replying to this so I get updates, thanks.

Hi Nick,

Yes, we are hoping NatWest can address the underlying issue. I have chased up again with Plaid to see if they can encourage the bank to look into this more quickly.

Tommy

Appreciate that this should affect existing users with working setups. Equally I expect this is affecting all users of RBS bank feeds. That must be a reasonable number of your users. Adding the ability to toggle this on or off would resolve not delaying users not wanting that, or adding as an experimental feature.

As mentioned before the real solution is for pending transactions to be imported as soon as available, and for the full details to be amended in once available from the bank. This answers both full a desire for full details and those wanting transactions as soon as available. It also matches how banks appear to implement Open Banking transaction viewing. But I appreciate this is a bit more more than a simple toggle.

Hi Nick,

No problem at all, and it is unlikely our Product team would approve this change as this would result in a delay for all other customers with other banks that set the flag correctly. Unfortunately, we have already received complaints from users about delays caused by pending transactions.

Tommy

@Tommy,

I know you have raised a compliance issue with the bank as you believe the feed being sent isn't compliant.

The feeds are still showing the same issues. Given it's been indicated that this might take the banks some time to look at or resolve, could a work around be implemented at application level now? All it will need to do it delay the import by 1 day - which was the previous behaviour of the Clearbooks application. This should be trivial to implement, as a stretch you could introduce a toggle for those that wish to have the bleeding edge imports.

thanks,

Hi Nick,

Yes, pending transactions are ignored by us. For formality, we will require the screenshot of an example transaction displaying the reference on your actual bank statement in order to escalate this to the appropriate channels.

Tommy

As expected transactions pulled yesterday that weren't showing references now show those references via Open Banking.

The import in to Clearbooks hasn't updated the imported records to show the new information available.

From what I can see I think this supports the theory that Clearbooks / Plaid have started pulling transactions with a mutable / pending status where before you / they weren't. Or Natwest / RBS have altered what's returned for the API calls you / Plaid are making.

Again, super quick, but across the RBS API versions there doesn't appear to have been a significant logic shift in the mutable / pending approach, but could be wrong in that.

The answer does appear to be either not pulling transactions marked as mutable / pending - they are allowed to be changed under OB specs. Or updating the pulled info in Clearbooks when it does change.

As an interesting side note, OB pulls via Monzo still don't show references on DD transactions, however, pulls in to Clearbooks for historical transactions (I'm guessing ones that are immutable or not pending) do show the reference (RBS call this 'More information').

I can send a screenshot but I'm not sure what this would demonstrate. Transaction appears via open banking soon after it's made. Likely mutable at this stage. At some point after it stops being mutable and more information is available to see. This matches exactly what happens on the Natwest banking site, so it feels pretty baked in to their workings - this has been the behaviour for as long as we've banked with them (10+ years).

thanks,

Hi Nick,

Thank you for the additional detail.

This could potentially still be a OB compliance issue for the bank as once a transaction is marked as no longer pending they shouldn't be changing it. In this case, could you send us a screenshot of an example transaction showing the reference on your actual bank statement (redacting any other sensitive information) on the outstanding support ticket you have with us. We can then use this to escalate as a compliance issue with the bank.

Thanks,

Tommy

@Tommy As suggested I've deleted and reimported statements via the link - in this case all of July and August. The July statements have come through fine - they look pretty much as before - essentially a dump of text - based on what you said before is true. However, the August transactions are back to being just the name or reference.

Comparing this against the Open Banking feed gives a possible clue and solution. The open banking feed also shows just the name or reference for transactions in Aug or the last couple of days. I'll check back tomorrow and I would expect that the list will update as more information becomes available.

In Clearbooks it used to take a day or two for transactions to appear in the import, however, I have transactions from today showing now.

I think that Clearbooks is importing the transactions and then not checking if the entries for those transactions have been updated. So the reduced version gets locked in. As imports are checked - I think 4 times a day - the imported statement is forever only showing the initial data.

Assuming this is right then, the fix would appear to either be wait X days as previously. Or better, check if the entry matches the saved version. If no match then reimport. An easy skip if it's already been explained.

The Natwest API refers to Mutable and Immutable, along side those transactions being 'booked' (Boolean field). Natwest / RBS Group API reference here: https://www.bankofapis.com/products/natwest-group-open-banking/accounts/documentation/nwb/4.0.0#transactions-endpoint This tallies with how things show (and have always shown) with Natwest.

A super quick fly around suggested Natwest isn't an outlier in this, but maybe their mutable / pending approach is a little different. However, the API confirms that re querying the endpoint is the solution for getting the missing data.

How this all works via Plaid I've no idea.

Hi Nick,

Very interesting, we have just checked again and it looks like there may have been a fix today as it's looking like reference data is coming back from the API since this afternoon but not for the Direct Debits as you have mentioned.

In this case, you can delete those statements and retrigger an import to include those references by heading to Dashboard > Bank accounts > Manage bank feeds > Click unlink > Link to an account > Specify the import start date.

Tommy

Screenshot sent via the message function.

As a test I've tried adding the Natwest account in question to another app that pulls the data from Natwest via Open Banking. (Monzo in this case).

The transaction list looks correct - The main display for each transaction is the name of the payee or recipient. And (in Monzo app) the sub title is the reference. Basically it all looks correct for most transaction types. Direct Debits aren't showing the reference ('More information' as Natwest call is on their online banking.).

So Natwest aren't perfect (I'll contain my surprise), but they are sending out the information via Open Banking.

So either Monzo have some secret sauce to get more from Natwest, Plaid aren't providing all the data, or calling the right end points, Clearbooks aren't using all the data available from Plaid.

thanks,

Hi Nick,

The data does come through Plaid, but we make use of the raw data that they get from the bank rather than the "friendly" versions of it that they provide which normally has parts of the description etc. stripped out.

Transaction date, date posted, pending status, debit/credit sign and statement description are the values we get passed through to us, and we add these to Clear Books statements exactly as received from the bank data (with the exception of ignoring pending transactions as their details can and do change).

Open Banking regulations require that this data is largely the same as what gets presented to the account holder in the bank's online banking system or banking app, but there are rare cases where banks break this after making changes to their banking systems. If we're able to collect evidence that there's a difference, then we can escalate this to Natwest to have it resolved. In this case, when you're logged in, could you click the ? icon at the top right > Send Us a Message and include a screenshot of an example transaction showing the reference please?

Tommy

Thanks Tommy, Interesting to know - so the data doesn't come through Plaid?

For the auto imports we are getting the payment reference for money in, and payee for money out.

This change happened on or around the 1st July. Input before this is fine and after not.

Downloaded statements appear to have no change running over this date line.

What information are you getting through from the APIs? There must be more than date, description, amount?!

thanks

Hi both,

To clarify, most of the Plaid API fields are only populated for US banks. For UK banks, while some fields are populated, they do not always contain the original data provided by the bank. In many cases, Plaid supplies synthesised or normalised values instead.

To provide transaction descriptions that accurately match customers' bank statements, we use private APIs to retrieve the raw transaction data directly. We can see the responses from both of these APIs, and Natwest are not sending through references at all.

Can I confirm if the references are appearing on your actual bank statement?

Tommy